RX8 beat Murcielago, 360 Modena & M3!!!!!

[Verrückt]

Originally Posted by RotaryWeapon

This is a funny thread.

Like someone else previously stated, the rotary is in actuality 1.3 liters, but operates as a 2.6 liter in some aspects. People that think of a rotary as a 2 stroke engine should really do their homework, because it is definitly a 4 stroke engine.

Definition of 4 stoke:
Stroke 1, Intake
Stroke 2, Compression
Stroke 3, Combustion
Stroke 4, Exhaust

Definition of 2 Stroke
Stroke 1, Intake & Compression
Stroke 2, Combustion & Exhaust

The rotary is definitly a 4 stoke, with 4 seperate strokes in its combusion event.

Also, even if it were 2 stroke, the displacement of 1.3 liters still holds. When you go out and look at 2 stroke motorcycles, say 250cc's, 250cc's is 250cc's. Its not 250cc's in 2 stroke terms and 500cc's in 4 stroke terms at the same time!

Where people get confused is that for each rotor there is a combustion event on each revolution of the eccentric shaft (crankshaft). So it is firing like a 4 cylinder.

Basically what it comes down to is people don't know what to say when they lose to a car with much less displacement than there own. Look at all the excuses people with v8's have come up with when they lose to a honda or rotary powered car.

Which is why displacement is just a number. I doesn't mean all that much in the grand scheme of things.

I would judge the engines on power to weight or BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption).

In both respects, the rotary is not superior to a traditional IC engine.

In fact, if you swap an LS V8 into a 3rd gen RX-7...the car will actually weigh less than it did with the 13B rotary.

Uh oh!

[RotaryWeapon]

Yeah whatever. Thats a load of bull. Lets ruin a RX series car. Then it cant be called an RX anymore. People who do that deserve to be shot. Just my .02cents.

[Verrückt]

Originally Posted by RotaryWeapon

Yeah whatever. Thats a load of bull. Lets ruin a RX series car. Then it cant be called an RX anymore. People who do that deserve to be shot. Just my .02cents.

Are you saying he is lying or are you just pissed that he put in a (well performing) engine that wasn't a rotary?

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by zenjoe

rotaries are completely different than piston engines and people really dont account for that. Yes the engine only has 1.3 liters of displacement between its two rotors, that is how it is officially measured. But in piston engine land, they measure displacement by how much displacement is fired per 2 crankshaft rotations (because most engines are 4 stroke, they need 2 complete engine rotations to fire all of its cylinders). This would mean that the rotary is 2.6 liters in displacement.

Now look at some other specifics.

Power to weight ratio? rotary rules
Power to size ratio? rotary is king
Power to displacement? is depends on how you look at rotaries.

There are 4 rotor rotarys, called 26b's (made from 2 13b engines). the official displacement is 2.6 liters, in piston engine terms that would be 5.2 liters. I have seen a couple at 1000whp on 92 octane gas using a monster turbo. There are not to many 5.2 liter v8's that will do that on pump gas. 13b engines will make 500whp on pump gas. will your 2.6 liter anything make that kind of power on pump gas? Some probably, but not to many. Also when going Naturally aspirated, 13b engines will produce close to 350whp when ported correctly.

If you don't believe any of this, all can be confirmed at www.rx7club.com

While I'm not gonna argue with you (as I've seen the proof myself many times being a member of the 3 major rx-7/rotary forums), I would like to mention a 350whp NA 13b is being pushed pretty much to the limit. I believe mazdatrix or racing beat was able to extract 370hp out of an n/a 13 b . That engine also required reving to 10k rpms, was purely for racing (read: extremely loud, and no torque below 5000rpms).
As far as the 5.2liter over 1000hp goes.... I believe there are a few guys running licoln navigator 5.4 v8's pushing well over 800hp, I know they could go higher with a big single t78(i think), but being street engines cars they choose to stop there, or felt at the time it was plenty. A mustang magazine took a crate 03 cobra engine, removed the SC, changed the throttle body and put on 2 turbo's, ran it upto 14psi and put down over 800hp @ under 7000prms. Exact numbers elude me ATM. Also made peak torque of 725lb-ft at 400rpms-6000rpms, the turbo's were oversized (were for a different project ment to hit over 900hp). That test was a 2 part article in "muscle mustangs & fast fords" december 2004 and january 2005 issue's.

Personally I think it's stupid to argue the whole displacement thing, especialy with rotaries vs pistons, as some don't agree with the way SAE (society of Automotive engineers) rates rotaries, and 2nd, they are just 2 completely different engines that run on the same fuel. The other thing is, I feel that the arguement that my engine make more hp/liter than yours is only an arguement for those who can't make power and just lost the race. a b16a with 100hp/litre is only 160hp, not a whole lot (except for a 1.6), a 572 BBC with 100hp/litre, would make 930hp. how many people need that power on the street? And btw, guys have gotten 112hp/litre out of a BBC without forced induction or nitrous, on pump gas, and not having to rev beyond 7000rpms to get it (540cid BBC made 990hp@6800rpms) I doubt it would pass smog tho.

[RotaryWeapon]

Well if u wanna bring up the displacement arguement again. Try this:
Legend, Hondas Answer to the M5??

But about that limit thing that says 350whp. Are u high? Have u seen the 9 sec n/a 3rotor of Jesus Papidila. Or how about the 6.9sec 20B of Albels. Or the fast growing number of 10 and 11 second 2nd and 3rd gens. Oh and lets not forget the 787B with the 2.6L 4-rotor, the only japanese company to win the 24hrs of LeMans. Thank u 787B.

And other rotarys have been pushed as high as 1000hp. So I really dont mind having a 1.3L or a 2.0L Rotary. You should try driving a few. There more fun than any other car.

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by RotaryWeapon

Well if u wanna bring up the displacement arguement again. Try this:
Legend, Hondas Answer to the M5??

But about that limit thing that says 350whp. Are u high? Have u seen the 9 sec n/a 3rotor of Jesus Papidila. Or how about the 6.9sec 20B of Albels. Or the fast growing number of 10 and 11 second 2nd and 3rd gens. Oh and lets not forget the 787B with the 2.6L 4-rotor, the only japanese company to win the 24hrs of LeMans. Thank u 787B.

And other rotarys have been pushed as high as 1000hp. So I really dont mind having a 1.3L or a 2.0L Rotary. You should try driving a few. There more fun than any other car.

Let me clarify a few terms for you since you can't seem to read:
13b = 1308 cc, 2 Rotor, rotary engine Produced by Mazda
20b = 1962 cc, 3 rotor, rotary engine produced by Mazda
NA = Naturally Aspirated. Naturally aspirated means it does not use Nitrous, or a turbo charger, or a supercharger, it sucks all of it's air from the atmosphere.

With that being said, Re-Read what I posted.... I said 13b. A 13b is a 2 rotor. To be exact it was "350whp NATURALLY ASPIRATED 13b is being pushed pretty much to the limit" That means 350 horsepower at the wheels is about the limit of a NATURALLY ASPIRATED 1308 CC mazda rotary engine. I didn't say it was the absolute limit, and I didn't say for all rotaries, I said was pretty much for an n/a 2 rotor as I haven't seen many push it much further than that. Abels 20b is a ****in 20b with a huge god damn turbo on it, not a naturally aspirated, and has 1 extra rotor. I'm well aware of the 26b/787b.
Another interesting feat was that in 83 or 84 the Mazda t616 won CLASS (787b won overall) with a 13b NATURALLY ASPIRATED rotary. It put out 300hp, and ran on street radials by BFgoodrich. The whole car was a publicity stunt for BFG to sell their at the time new tires. The Car was underpowered in the class it raced, and the other cars had slicks.... and it still won. The other cars were hitting 210mph on the straits, while it was topping out at 180. OH and it also had the problem of not being as fuel effecient as it's rivals, so they had to conserve gas, were under powered, and had worse tires and still beat the competition.

I was trying to point out that it's POINTLESS TO ARGUE ABOUT THE DISPLACEMENT, especialy between A rotary and a Piston engine, as FIA banned it because they couldn't classify it with the piston engines. Thats why the 787b was not allowed to race, it wasn't banned itself, just the engine, and Mazda won't race (for the most part) unless they can push the rotary.

Many rotaries have been pushed beyond the 1000hp mark as you said. Abel's 20b is somewhere in the 1400-1600 range (or so he claims). There are quite a few drag cars pushing 1100 plus on 20b's. I've seen a 13b (remember, thats the smaller engine) capable of pumping out over 900hp, it had 2 large ass turbo's and used a form of Alcohol, and was used in a drag car in australia.

BTW, in that thread u posted, I like how u compare a Turbo Rotary's hp/litre to that of a naturally aspirated Piston engine .

[RotaryWeapon]

Oh sry man, I feel like a tard now. I'm so use to listening to morons I ddont read the whole thing, it looks like an outline to me. Well the final one I used was the rx8 with its 183hp/L. But I like the turbo rotarys more so I talk about them. Well thats what they were talking about n/a and I chimed in with my 13bt and rew and renesis and 20B and 26B, they argued and I responded. I was still right. And yes the australians are crazy.

[Blackmilk]

It's funny to see those posts and a lot of passion about rotary
Here, we are 55 millions of persons and only 100/150 rotary's for everybody

[thedguy]

Originally Posted by RotaryWeapon

Oh sry man, I feel like a tard now. I'm so use to listening to morons I ddont read the whole thing, it looks like an outline to me. Well the final one I used was the rx8 with its 183hp/L. But I like the turbo rotarys more so I talk about them. Well thats what they were talking about n/a and I chimed in with my 13bt and rew and renesis and 20B and 26B, they argued and I responded. I was still right. And yes the australians are crazy.

Np. I do the same thing sometimes. Especially browsing the RX7club forums a.k.a. the evil forum you start to just skim it. I love turbo rotaries. for an engine that doesn't make torque they sure can pull pretty damn hard.

[RotaryWeapon]

Yeah owning one helps. I'm on www.rx7club.com as RotaryWeaponSE7EN. I got an 86 GXL and 87TII. The GXL is getting a swap right now. Looking for about 380hp with nitrous.<---for the fastercars. 340-350 w/o it. I just need a drifter.

[Haakon]

Originally Posted by Boyd

It's funny to see those posts and a lot of passion about rotary
Here, we are 55 millions of persons and only 100/150 rotary's for everybody

dude think its like 50-60 rotaries in norway and its only 4.5 mill people,but theres no problem getting a hold of them,just import it from japan or germany!

[Blackmilk]

Originally Posted by 88modell

dude think its like 50-60 rotaries in norway and its only 4.5 mill people,but theres no problem getting a hold of them,just import it from japan or germany!

Here, no need to import its but nobody wants one

[RotaryWeapon]

Boyd be quiet. Noone want to hear ur immature comments. Everyone wants a Rotary.

[Blackmilk]

Originally Posted by RotaryWeapon

Boyd be quiet. Noone want to hear ur immature comments. Everyone wants a Rotary.

ROFL
You know nothing about France
Here, nobody knows rotary cause it's hard to mod and it's a new technology to learn
Nobody wants one and that's a fact

[Verrückt]

Originally Posted by Boyd

ROFL
You know nothing about France
Here, nobody knows rotary cause it's hard to mod and it's a new technology to learn
Nobody wants one and that's a fact

Not to mention gas is $5-$6 per gallon. Rotaries are not fuel efficient or clean burning...both very important for the European market.