Nitrous, Cheating?

[BOTLFEDLT1]

Im running under the assumption that we are talking about street racing, and not a class of organized racing that limits certain mods. Cheating implies breaking a rule. Unless otherwise agreed upon before the start of the race, my understanding is the only rule in street racing is "run what you brung".

As far as Im concerned, the only people who consider nitrous "cheating" are the haters. These are the guys who didnt do enough research as to what is the best mod for their application (this part is key), and now are unhappy with their results compared to the nitrous users. There are too many people out there who stand stubbornly on some sort of "modification moral high ground" and want to do things the hard way thinking that it automatically earns them some sort of respect (i.e. "my car is all motor, just like the way ichiro honda intended it to be!"). At the end of the day, all that matters is who crossed the line first, and not how they they did it.

Going back the notion of best mod for the application, I love nitrous for combined street/strip cars, which im assuming most ppl on this board have. I could have went an all motor, high rpm set up. But then I would have crappy fuel economy, wouldnt pass emissions and lose alot of driveability. I could have gone turbo, but honestly, it costs a lot of money to do that properly and there are often alot of ongoing tuning issues.

[Memphis]

i didnt mean street racing in particular, sure nitrous is the best bang for buck to get across the line but imo it seems to be the like easy way out.

"modification moral high ground" and want to do things the hard way thinking that it automatically earns them some sort of respect.

To me a car that runs good without nitrous is more respectable than a car relying on nitrous. I guess that is what is a car that relys on nitrous to be fast isnt respectable nor fast. lets see is that made sense

[UKunt]

i voted no.as now days the storys of ''it will blow ur engine up'' it will blow u and ur car up'' have gone amd its the cheapest way to get power.but that power does run out after ,what 5mins of constant use??? so on a circit track it would be that great using.for straight lining tho u cant really beat it.

[UKunt]

oh i would of voted vette> viper as well. there both toy cars tho just the viper is more of a toy car

[BOTLFEDLT1]

Since when is the easy way out a bad thing? So by your rationale, a person that does things the hard way, unecessarily I might add, is one who should be respected? Is a geo metro that has been modified with great difficulty to run 14's (he saved 4 seconds off his et) more respectable of a car than a supra than runs 11's? (who only shared 2 seconds with comparable ease.

Originally Posted by Memphis

imo it seems to be the like easy way out.

[BOTLFEDLT1]

Everyone always uses the same argument about how you can only use nitrous until the bottle is empty, but lets do an apples to apples comparison. The same disadvantages of non-constant availability can be applied to high psi turbo set ups too. You think you can run at 30 psi for more more than a couple of minutes? Are you going to run race gas everytime you take your car out

btw. the cobalt ss beat everyone in the time attack competition, including modded evo's and skylines, was using nitrous on the circuit.

Originally Posted by burgh

but that power does run out after ,what 5mins of constant use??? so on a circit track it would be that great using.for straight lining tho u cant really beat it.

[Memphis]

lol good comparison. Thats an extreme case haha I'll put it like this a 13 sec Camaro imo is more respectable than someone who throws a bottle in a damn near otherwise stock car and say they have a 11 sec car, when in reality you don't not consistently anyway.

[UKunt]

Originally Posted by BOTLFEDLT1

Everyone always uses the same argument about how you can only use nitrous until the bottle is empty, but lets do an apples to apples comparison. The same thing disadvantage of non-constant availability can be applied to high psi turbo set ups too. You think you can run at 30 psi for more more than a couple of minutes? Are you going to run race gas everytime you take your car out

btw. the cobalt ss beat everyone in the time attack competition, including modded evo's and skylines, was using nitrous on the circuit.

yer im sure it did.was the evos modded RC cars?? alot of cars can also run 30psi for more then mins.the same as cars with NAAAAWZ can run 200bhp of gas.if there set up right thres no reason why it cant.

[Memphis]

Originally Posted by BOTLFEDLT1

Everyone always uses the same argument about how you can only use nitrous until the bottle is empty, but lets do an apples to apples comparison. The same thing disadvantage of non-constant availability can be applied to high psi turbo set ups too. You think you can run at 30 psi for more more than a couple of minutes? Are you going to run race gas everytime you take your car out

btw. the cobalt ss beat everyone in the time attack competition, including modded evo's and skylines, was using nitrous on the circuit.

True, but there are many cars out there that run on pump gas that car do runs all day.

[UKunt]

and a metro taking 4 secs off its stock car time with build mods. is more respected then a car with a bottle takin 4 secs off its time

[BOTLFEDLT1]

Originally Posted by burgh

yer im sure it did.was the evos modded RC cars?? alot of cars can also run 30psi for more then mins.the same as cars with NAAAAWZ can run 200bhp of gas.if there set up right thres no reason why it cant.

They way the evo's ran, they might as well have been powered by little electric motors lol.

The cars that I see typically that are pushing really high boost (i.e. 30 psi) are doing so 1) on a dyno, 2) in a 1/4 drag, or 3) in a roll on highway racing not lasting more than 10-15 seconds. Since there are apparently "alot" of cars that can run on a circuit for the duration of a road race, please share some examples. And no, the porsche 917/30 CanAm car doesnt count.

1 - 12 GM Performance Division John Heinricy 2006 Chevrolet Cobalt SS 01:51.318 Unlimited FF

2 - 50 Import Car Tuner Vesko Kozarov 2004 Mitsubishi Evo 8 01:52.561 Unlimited AWD

3 - 1 Signal Auto Eiji Yamada 2000 Nissan Skyline GTR 01:53.021 Unlimited AWD

4 - 25 C-West Naofumi Omoto/Eiji Yamada 2000 Honda S2000 01:53.147 Unlimited FR

5 - 37 Red Hot Yoshinobu Koyama 2002 BMW CSL 01:54.689 Unlimited FR

6 - 48 Works Eiji Yamada 2005 Mitsubishi Evo 8 01:55.007 Limited AWD RA1

7 - 32 Tokico Jack Mardikian 1993 Mazda RX-7 01:55.344 Unlimited FR

8 - 24 Hasport Bernardo Martinez 1995 Acura Integra 01:55.585 Unlimited FF

9 - 6 Twins Turbo Steven Aslanian 1994 Toyota Supra 01:55.739 Unlimited FR

10 - 28 J's Racing Junichi Umemoto 2001 Honda S2000 01:55.858 Unlimited FR

[BOTLFEDLT1]

Fair enough, but if I were the owner of that 11 second car on juice, I would say it runs 11's when it counts

Originally Posted by Memphis

lol good comparison. Thats an extreme case haha I'll put it like this a 13 sec Camaro imo is more respectable than someone who throws a bottle in a damn near otherwise stock car and say they have a 11 sec car, when in reality you don't not consistently anyway.

[UKunt]

Originally Posted by BOTLFEDLT1

They way the evo's ran, they might as well have been powered by little electric motors lol.

The cars that I see typically that are pushing really high boost (i.e. 30 psi) are doing so 1) on a dyno, 2) in a 1/4 drag, or 3) in a roll on highway racing not lasting more than 10-15 seconds. Since there are apparently "alot" of cars that can run on a circuit for the duration of a road race, please share some examples. And no, the porsche 917/30 CanAm car doesnt count.

1 - 12 GM Performance Division John Heinricy 2006 Chevrolet Cobalt SS 01:51.318 Unlimited FF

2 - 50 Import Car Tuner Vesko Kozarov 2004 Mitsubishi Evo 8 01:52.561 Unlimited AWD

3 - 1 Signal Auto Eiji Yamada 2000 Nissan Skyline GTR 01:53.021 Unlimited AWD

4 - 25 C-West Naofumi Omoto/Eiji Yamada 2000 Honda S2000 01:53.147 Unlimited FR

5 - 37 Red Hot Yoshinobu Koyama 2002 BMW CSL 01:54.689 Unlimited FR

6 - 48 Works Eiji Yamada 2005 Mitsubishi Evo 8 01:55.007 Limited AWD RA1

7 - 32 Tokico Jack Mardikian 1993 Mazda RX-7 01:55.344 Unlimited FR

8 - 24 Hasport Bernardo Martinez 1995 Acura Integra 01:55.585 Unlimited FF

9 - 6 Twins Turbo Steven Aslanian 1994 Toyota Supra 01:55.739 Unlimited FR

10 - 28 J's Racing Junichi Umemoto 2001 Honda S2000 01:55.858 Unlimited FR

all that proves it it might of had a good driver. and its the least car u would want to own on the whole list.

[UKunt]

i wonder if they wil ever use NAAAAAAAWZ in F1 or rallying. hmm i cant see that happening when races last hours at a time.its good for budget racing.i never said it was bad.

[BOTLFEDLT1]

John might be a better driver, but among professionals, the difference between drivers isnt as wide as when you are comparing amateurs. These guys qualify within 10ths of a second from one another. The bottom line is that those cars which are supposedly much superior with their fancy AWD, sophisticated suspensions, superior powerplants and ground effects couldnt take out GM's econo box fwd car.

The one thing I noticed about you lately is how you love to dodge facts. For instance, this debate got started up when you said nitrous couldnt be used in a circuit. I disagreed and showed how it could be applied. You counter by saying its the least desirable car on the list. WTF does that have to do with the original argument?

Originally Posted by burgh

all that proves it it might of had a good driver. and its the least car u would want to own on the whole list.