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Old 17 Aug 2005, 07:24 am   #1 (permalink)
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Unhappy supercharging and turbo charging

can someone please explain how you can supercharge and turbocharge a car at the same time?? i know how turbo's work and how superchargers work but ive seen a car in the british tuning mag max power a ford focus with a jackson supercharger and turbo kit!
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Old 17 Aug 2005, 10:33 am   #2 (permalink)
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Bilt them both on there and use a 2into1 pipe. It is pretty much a novelty or attention getter. No real good reason to have both. The air/fuel maps and piping difficulties would outweigh any bennefit it might be worth.
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Old 17 Aug 2005, 06:29 pm   #3 (permalink)
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there's a few videos on here with a BMW with both a supercharger and turbocharger..

also the Lancia Delta Group B rally car had both as well.. supercharger at low RPM's and turbo at higher RPM's..

it had some dump valve to blow off the pressure when not needed.. very interesting setup..

i have yet to find a good pic of those engines
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Old 17 Aug 2005, 06:31 pm   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nismoron
Bilt them both on there and use a 2into1 pipe. It is pretty much a novelty or attention getter. No real good reason to have both. The air/fuel maps and piping difficulties would outweigh any bennefit it might be worth.
true its not worth it,,,a/r would be wacked out
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Old 17 Aug 2005, 06:33 pm   #5 (permalink)
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I understand the principal with revs, but with the little to no lag time with a properly built turbo it seems like overkill. You can only put so much pressure into a block before you start to have blow out problems so with both systems I'd think boost levels would have to be kept low and in check to make it viable.

But there are soo many trick gadgets on the scene I'm sure they have blow off valves that can cycle with each other to come up with a good tradeoff.
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Old 17 Aug 2005, 07:19 pm   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHI
I understand the principal with revs, but with the little to no lag time with a properly built turbo it seems like overkill. You can only put so much pressure into a block before you start to have blow out problems so with both systems I'd think boost levels would have to be kept low and in check to make it viable.

But there are soo many trick gadgets on the scene I'm sure they have blow off valves that can cycle with each other to come up with a good tradeoff.
Yes but why bother. A well thought out turbo setup will yield all the power you could want and can be designed with little or no lag. My best friend's car is turbo, but you cant tell. It has NO lag at all. You press the gas and the boost needle moves with your foot... we call it the foot position guage

The dual setup would require too much gadgetry to be viable or worthwhile...
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Old 18 Aug 2005, 08:52 pm   #7 (permalink)
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Old 19 Aug 2005, 03:15 am   #8 (permalink)
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Could use the supercharger to spin up a big turbo.... rig it so there's no lag and big numbers!!! And the turbo wouldn't get anything like as hot
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Old 22 Aug 2005, 06:19 pm   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csd_19
Could use the supercharger to spin up a big turbo.... rig it so there's no lag and big numbers!!! And the turbo wouldn't get anything like as hot
have you ever heard of a centrifugal supercharger? its a belt hooked up to the compressor side of a turbo. you build boost with revs.
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Old 05 Apr 2006, 12:26 pm   #10 (permalink)
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it only works on big systems tha can power it on motor homes most time a turbo is used to make boost pressure to spool up a bigger turbo but like i said only systems that can power it and benifit from a system that large
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Old 05 Apr 2006, 12:28 pm   #11 (permalink)
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every one has heard of centrifurgal superchargers it a commpressor side of a turbo basicaly only it has a gear box to step up the rpm of the blower so if your enghine spins 7,000 rpm the blower might spin about 15,000-20,000
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Old 17 Apr 2006, 10:45 am   #12 (permalink)
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i guess it could work but with everyone saying the a/r ratio would get screwed... you'd probably have to do some good tuning plus have a good pocket book

it would be very sweet if you could hook both of them up, the car would be a monster!!

don't listen to me i'm just a kid who doesn't know what he's talkin about:loser1:
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Old 17 Apr 2006, 11:24 am   #13 (permalink)
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vw have made a super and turbo engine.

A number of new products will be on display at this year’s Geneva Show. In summary, the highlights are:

Concept A: Crossover design leads way for new compact SUV
Polo BlueMotion: Fuel efficient diesel power with 72.4 mpg
Eos: The only convertible-coupé with a glass sunroof
EcoFuel: CNG/petrol bi-fuel engine in Touran and Caddy
Golf GT: Technically advanced 1.4-litre super and turbo charged engine
Polo GTI: At 150 PS, the most powerful production Polo
Polo Dune: Off-road appearance within compact Polo proportions

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/company/...neva_show_2006
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Old 17 Apr 2006, 12:01 pm   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewaysKA-T
have you ever heard of a centrifugal supercharger? its a belt hooked up to the compressor side of a turbo. you build boost with revs.
Those have got to be the worst froms of forced induction, You get shit for boost on the bottom end, and only a few rpms of real boost. I think an 8psi kit for the 350z has 2psi at just above idle.
----------

If you'd want to build a twin-charged setup, follow how vw did it...sorta. I had thought on a setup similar before. Basically bot the turbo and SC would be separate, feed air into a "Y" pipe with a plate that could close of one pipe or the other. SC would be used for bottom end (obviously) and as the turbo came on enough to shut off the SC, the bypass on the SC would be opened and the plate that was originally blocking the Turbo from working now blocks the SC.

Basically the side with more air flow/pressure would cause the other side to close off. The turbo side on low revs, and the SC side on high revs. The purpous of the plate is mostly to have a nice balance during the transition, rather than a funky jerk, or a range of revs where there's not enough boost.
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Old 17 Apr 2006, 08:55 pm   #15 (permalink)
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A guy here in Aus built his own supercharged/turbocharged 13b turbo powered old school 323 hatchback.

Now I can't quite remember how it worked but it was blower upto ~3000rpm then turbo. There was some way he had arranged so that the blower tract became redundant above those revs. I'd have to read the article again. It was in Zoom magazine rotary special sometime back. Made ~350rwhp iirc.
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