RX7 vs. R32 GTR

[R34 GTR V-SPEC]

Originally Posted by SevPP

Stock for stock an FD will beat an R32 on most tracks. A power track will see the GTR win. Its been that way and still is right now. R32-34, FD s6-8-fd is the better handling car. Of course you need a someone that can steer too.

What you been smokin mate?

[SevPP]

Originally Posted by GTRJack

^^ I'm lazy to go into discussion with you. Stock for stock RX7's are not faster then the GTR around circuit track. I've only seen "ONE" video where the stock RX7 took the win against other stock JDMs. Otherwise I've seen like 20 videos of stock GTR vs. stock RX7 battles together on track and guess what the RX7 always ends up last.

Don't get me wrong the RX7 FD's are great cars but the problem with the stock RX7 is the power. Stock base simply needs a bit more power, otherwise it'd kicks ass.

As tuner cars RX7 FD3S does the corner a bit better but the GTR is superior in traction and corner exit. If you watch the tuner cars RX7 FD's vs. GTRs they're pretty close to equals on track. Take a look at the Tsukuba Super Lap Battle for the JDM tuners, the top 3 are EVOs, Skylines and RX7s. As overall performer Jack of all trade tuner car the Skyline is ALOT better.

One of the reasion RX7 tuners can't make huge power as the GTR tuners around circuit track is because of the reliability and the heat problem + plus durability. Even though the RX7 tuners tendence to have less power then the GTR tuners battling out on track the competion is still fear. Other words the RX7 makes less power BUT it's ALOT lighter so power to weight ratio are pretty the same.

From this video it's obvious who's the winner. Street racing on street tires racing from a dig you can't expect to beat a Skyline. The RX7 dude should've known that he was already doomed before the race started.

GTR Jack- Thank you for a sensible and well informed reply- unlike some others on this forum.

R34 GTR Vspec- I know that you are quite knowledgeable when it comes to GTR's but responses like that are very poor. I base my knowledge on what I have seen in real life time and time again- not just from "internet videos" or the drag strip or the street or heard from a mates uncles brothers pet dog who has a fully sick GTR that runs 6's and laps 3 seconds a lap quicker than an f1 car.

GTR Jack. My opinion is based on what I've seen, as is yours. One thing is that a lot will come down to the driver. I guess this is where the differences lie in what I've seen- possibly/likely?. A good example I guess is today where to stock fd's (s6 and 8) both lapped quicker than a modded R33 GTR in the wet- obviously driver skill there!

As for tuner battles. I would dare say that the GTR's have had quite a bit more money pumped into them than the RX7's (again from the few vids I've seen) Both in parts, testing/ R&D. ie the Stillway RX7 certainly hasn't had the money of some of the top GTRs but isn't far behind. If I'm incorrect in saying this then please correct me. I base this on Stillway being a realtively small workshop compared to where some of the GTRs come from.

Street racing its kinda obvious that a GTR should win- or that the driver has no idea!

Each to their own. For myself the fd is the more suited car, quicker for the money, easier to work on (for me) and not as hard on tyres, brakes, drivetrain etc.

Cheers, Glen

[SevPP]

In real racing the RX7 has also proven itself- in production car racing with minimum mods allowed- exhaust, computer, dampers, boost etc being allowed. Turbos had to remain as fitted at the factory.

Some real race history.
The RX7s (fd's)biggest challenge initially were factory Porsche 968cs. Which they beat twice in the Bathurst 12 hour race.
Porsche then sent out the 911rscs for the Eastern Creek 12hour and Mazda again were able to win. The fields comprised of everything from Suzuki Swifts to GTR's, NSX,s, 911's, 968's- all production cars, basically as they rolled off the floor. And these were factory backed Porsches- no expense spared or so I'm told.

Then a few years ago there was a 3 hour production car race as a prelude for the v8 supercars at Bathurst. The RX7 qualified on pole in privateer hands against the likes of Vipers, Ferrari, a c5 vette, Maserati Shamal, and the previous mentioned cars. Only lasted 3 laps in the race. Came back the following year, qualified lower but still managed a win against the same cars.

Now many of the mentioned cars were faster in a straight line, the GTR, Vipers and a single Supra come to mind (also the maserati) but overall the RX7 was the winning car.
Here's a bit of a list of race history in Australia anyway.

1992 JAMES-HARDIE 12 HOUR
1st Charlie O'Brien / Garry Waldon / Mark Gibbs Mazda RX7 Turbo (1st Class T)
2nd Tony Longhurst / Alan Jones BMW M3 (1st Class C)
3rd Glenn Seton / Colin Bond Saab 9000 CS
4th Warren Cullen / Glenn Cullen / Kim Jane Holden Commodore VP SS (1st Class D)
5th Gregg Hansford / John Bowe Mazda RX7 Turbo
6th Wayne Park / Graham Neilsen / Bill Gillespie Holden Commodore VN SSGroupA

1993 JAMES-HARDIE 12 HOUR
1st Alan Jones / Garry Waldon Mazda RX7 Turbo (1st Class T)
2nd Charlie O'Brien / Gregg Hansford Mazda RX7 Turbo
3rd Wayne Gardner / Ian Palmer / Ross Palmer Honda NSX (1st Class C)
4th Graham Neilsen / Keith Carling / Bill Gillespie Nissan Skyline GT-R HR-32
5th Kent Youlden / Brett Youlden / Chris Muscat Ford Falcon EB XR6

1994 JAMES-HARDIE 12 HOUR
1st Gregg Hansford / Neil Crompton Mazda RX7 Turbo (1st Class X)
2nd Peter Fitzgerald / Jim Richards / Nicolas Lutweiler Porsche 968CS
3rd Brad Jones / Brett Peters / Geoff Morgan Porsche 968CS
4th Juan Manuel Fangio II / Neal Bates / Rick Bates Toyota MR2 Bathurst (1st Class S)
5th John Smith / Jason Bargwanna / Scott Bargwanna Toyota MR2
6th **** Johnson / Steven Johnson / Danny Osborne Ford Falcon ED XR6 (1st Class V)
7th John Bourke / Matthew Martin / Wayne Park Subaru Impreza WRX Turbo (1st Class T)
8th Graham Neilsen / Bill Gillespie / Keith Carling Maserati Shamal

1995 JAMES-HARDIE 12 HOUR (Eastern Creek)
1st John Bowe / **** Johnson Mazda RX7 SP2 (1st Class X)
2nd Peter Fitzgerald / Jim Richards Porsche 911RSCS
3rd Andrew Miedecke / Mark Noske Porsche 911RSCS
4th Garry Waldon / Mark Skaife Mazda RX7 SP2
5th Greg Crick / Ross Palmer / Jack Brabham Honda NSX
6th Greg Hurst / Liz Hurst / Andrew Leithead Subaru Impreza WRX (1st

1999 BATHURST 3 HOUR SHOWROOM SHOWDOWN
1st Terry Bosnjak / Mark Williamson Mazda RX7 SP2 (1st Class A)
2nd Ed Aitken / John Faulkner Porsche 911 RSCS
3rd Jamie Cartwright / Aaron McGill Toyota Supra RZ Turbo
4th Matthew Stoupas / Christian D'Agostin Porsche 911 RSCS
5th Chris Kousparis / Mark Brame Subaru Impreza WRX Turbo (1st Class B)
6th Peter Boylan / Ross Palmer Mitsubishi Lancer RS Evolution V Turbo
7th Don Pulver / Terry Shiel Subaru Impreza WRX Turbo
8th John Teulan / Mike Kilpatrick Nissan Skyline GT-R
9th Gary Deane / Jim McKnoulty Subaru Impreza WRX Turbo
10th Terry Finnigan / Ben Walsh BMW M3-R

2000 SUPER CHEAP AUTO BATHURST 3 HOUR (wet race)
1st Ed Aitken / John Faulkner HSV Commodore VT GTS (1st Class A)
2nd Scott Anderson / Ross Almond Mitsubishi Lancer RS Evolution V Turbo
3rd Phil Kirkham / Ric Shaw Mazda RX7 Twin Turbo
4th Chris Kousparis / Mark Brame Nissan 200SX Spec-R
5th Barry Morcom / Mark Stinson Mazda RX7 Twin Turbo
6th Mark King / Rod Wilson Mitsubishi Lancer RS Evolution V Turbo

There were some very quality fields back then. Mazda basically pulled out of production car racing after being heavily penalised each year until they left and only privateers were left running the 7's. For some reason in these races the GTR's never factored. But on other tracks they were very competitive. Just not to the same extent as Mazda or Porsche.

Sorry long post.

[GTRJack]

^^ Yes that's a long post it makes me lazy to quote and go into detailed discussion. Anyway I agree with you 90%. If I'm gonna list out how many times the GTR has won in the pass racing it's gonna be many pages let me tell ya that

I prefer the Skyline because it has unique racing history very few can match from Japan, it's legendary, it's a top notch tuner car with endless aftermarket support, It has benefit of both RWD and AWD, It's an all around performer that can stay at the top in every catagory, it's top notch street car, track car, drag car you name it.. Enough said :thumpup:

At the end of the day we all have our personal preferencies but let me tell ya RX7 is my second favorite tuner from Japan so I think we can be pretty good buddies anyway Oh don't bother R34 GTR V-SPEC, he's just jokey and being a bit sarcasting, no harm

[SevPP]

I also know a how much winning the GTR did, but most of that was in Group A, although there was quite a bit of success in Group N(which iirc the RX7 was inelligible)- The Grp N Zexel sponsored GTR's come to mind.

My favourite car is the R32 GTR but for me the RX7 is more suited (reasons already explained).
Anyway an internet argument is always good fun, haha!
Cheers, Glen.

[low_civic]

sevpp....you said STOCK FOR STOCK the rx7 wins...


sorry but that statement is false not only that your bringing in information about races and what ever...

look i see you love your rx7's and don't get me wrong its an amazing machine...but comparing a mazda rx7 to a skyline gtr is like comparing oranges to apples...

and no that is said..do you know how the skyline awd system works?

if not do a search there is even a vid on here about it...i read up on rx7's great cars i wanted one even but the more and more i learn about the gtr's the more i swing to that type of car...

its all around an amazing machine

[DarkMagician]

Originally Posted by GTRJack

^^ I'm lazy to go into discussion with you. Stock for stock RX7's are not faster then the GTR around circuit track. I've only seen "ONE" video where the stock RX7 took the win against other stock JDMs. Otherwise I've seen like 20 videos of stock GTR vs. stock RX7 battles together on track and guess what the RX7 always ends up last.

Don't get me wrong the RX7 FD's are great cars but the problem with the stock RX7 is the power. Stock base simply needs a bit more power, otherwise it'd kicks ass.

As tuner cars RX7 FD3S does the corner a bit better but the GTR is superior in traction and corner exit. If you watch the tuner cars RX7 FD's vs. GTRs they're pretty close to equals on track. Take a look at the Tsukuba Super Lap Battle for the JDM tuners, the top 3 are EVOs, Skylines and RX7s. As overall performer Jack of all trade tuner car the Skyline is ALOT better.

One of the reasion RX7 tuners can't make huge power as the GTR tuners around circuit track is because of the reliability and the heat problem + plus durability. Even though the RX7 tuners tendence to have less power then the GTR tuners battling out on track the competion is still fear. Other words the RX7 makes less power BUT it's ALOT lighter so power to weight ratio are pretty the same.

From this video it's obvious who's the winner. Street racing on street tires racing from a dig you can't expect to beat a Skyline. The RX7 dude should've known that he was already doomed before the race started.

WHich one is better?

[SevPP]

Low Civic: That class of racing that I have posted results for is as "stock for stock" as racing has ever been (ok, very minor freedoms for ALL cars involved). You will not find a class anywhere with cars that were as the factory released them- it doesn't even exist in Aus anymore (unfortunately)

I was lucky enough to be able to see the factory GroupA Nissan GTR's racing, in real life when I was younger, and this is the major reason that "THE R32 GTR IS MY FAVOURITE ALL TIME TOURING CAR". But I am not going to blindly say that it is the worlds best car either. You would also be surprised at how much I know about the GTR's- afterall its is my favourite car- but I don't base favouritism as a good reason to buy a car for motorsport (this is the way I'm looking at it)

Which car is better? For myself the RX7 is the better car. BUT thats not saying that the GTR is better or worse. I'd love both, but GTR expenses are massivley higher. Plenty of people here argue the opposite to me and thats fine. I respect there opinion but don't necessarily view it as fact.
OK stock, the GTR is definately the more reliable vehicle. As a road car the GTR is a better car. As a track car with an inexperienced driver, the GTR is a better car. In the wet the GTR in the right hands is the better car.

It appears that the GTR in many countries- those where it was never released, there seems to be a God like status for the car, that places it in almost "supercar" territory. There is no doubt it is an exceptionally good car for the money (well that depends on where you are I guess). An R32 GTR can be had here for around $15k for a rough example but excessively cheap for a car of that calibre. Here I see them quite often and they aren't massively out of the normal. They don't have that status in Australia that they appear to in other countries. Yes they are respected, they are fast, but they are not the be all and end all of performance motoring.

One last thing- stock for stock at my local track, (www.wintonraceway.com.au)Well they have got aftermarket exhausts, maybe a Power FC. I see the RX7s lapping consistently quicker than the GTR's. Maybe its the track, maybe the drivers I really couldn't say for sure but after seeing it for years (+ the other race results and plain old physics of the RX7) make me believe the RX7 is the better handling car (and better for me).

God damn you guys can get me going, haha! another long post!

Cheers, Glen.

[GTRJack]

Originally Posted by DarkMagician

WHich one is better?

In terms of what?

Skyline GTR has only 2 weaknesses which the RX7 has the advantages over, that is no. 1. The weight, no. 2. Short tight twisty touge road with constant small corners. But the rest in terms of road, traction, power, tuning, all around etc. on every catagory the Skyline is wayyy better performance car.. End of story

Let me give an example. Every year in the UK there's this TOTB competition in search for the best street/all around car. All the cars that enters must be street legal with unsurance, lisence plate, MOT, street tires etc. The competition includes auto X handling course, top speed and quartermile. No surprise the Skyline takes the total points and wins every year. Very few tuner car in the world can combine high power with handling and traction like the Skyline does. Other words a car that can run 9 seconds quartermile and do over 200 mph quicker then anything with the same time has traction and can combine great handling on track with just street tires, if such performance isn't a true street car then I don't know what is.... Where ever the Skyline exist it completly dominate the import tuner scene, secondly it's for nothing the Skyline is the top favorite pick amoung top tuners weather it is about street, race etc.. Skyline is also the road car that has the longest success in motorsport history from Japan, not just in Group A but also European endurance, Japan Grand Tour etc. etc. endless long list. With a bit of tuning Skyline has proven to be one example to come from Japan that can be called "supercar" on the road.

Well I think this should say all

[SevPP]

Outright cornering speed and shorter braking distances belong to the RX7 though!