Tribute to my IROC

[v_dub_ya]

Originally Posted by zach123ryan

PS ... I had a 305 and a scat crank for it, along with delta TPI cam and rods and pistons when i bought the car, i just drove it till i blew the stock engine and then threw in the rebuild kit... then blew the new engine when i wound it out on Interstate 5 and skipped a timing tooth, but thats what i get for using a ****ty timing set when i rebuilt it, either way, its about to receive a 383 stroker that is still TPI with original injection system, larger fuel rails and larger injectors ...

so toilet bowl injection... That Lmao

Scat crank nice equipment

[Thirdgen89GTA]

Wait? Crossfire looks JUST like TPI injection? Right. You are losing credibility here. Anyone ever see what Cease Fire Injection looks like?

Crossfire Injection


Tuned Port Injection


A whole lot of credibility there.

320rwhp from a "fully built" bottom end 305 with larger injectors? Just what was done to this wonderbeast? Had to have been damn near everything. 1986 305TPI/Auto. Made 190hp and 275lb/ft torque on average AT the crank. They had a tiny ass peanut cam with about 190/194 duration @.050" lift, and less than .400" lift on 1.5 rockers. They also had a very restrictive set of heads with small valves and 19lb/hr injectors. Larger injectors aren't gonna help an engine that already runs on the rich side. Specially one that is air flow limited.

305TPI auto cars are dogs. High 15's at best, and usually around a low 16 1/4 mile on average with a trap speed of roughly 87mph.

320rwhp even from a BUILT 305 TPI is damn near impossible without hellishly expensive parts. You'd need about 260 to 270cfm of flow from the heads, and a VERY modifed aftermarket plenum/runner/base setup. Also would need good headers, and a good exhaust.

Tuned port injection does not flow enough at the upper end to make those numbers on a 305 without a power adder. Even most expensive 350TPI buildups don't yield 320rwhp. My own 350 TPI with highly ported heads, a carefully selected cam from Lingenfelters book and every power trick in the book put down just 300rwhp with about 3 hours on the dyno for tuning. I had over 400lb/ft at the wheels, but your 305 just isn't gonna produce those numbers without dumping the TPI and going with a tunnel ram.

N/A TPI cars were not HP monsters. They were TORQUE monsters and most made their power well below 5,000rpm.

[American Psycho]

wned:

[Thirdgen89GTA]

If anyone doubts what I have to say, go look at www.thirdgen.org and see what most of the TPI cars are doing there.

I personally know someone with a factory freak car. Runs 14.4's all day long at 97mph with 80% humidity and 117* temp track side on a 2.4s 60'.
1992 TransAm GTA low mileage. 350TPI/Auto. Made 225hp and 315lb/ft torque on the dyno.

Also know someone with a fully built transmission on a 2,600 9.5" vigilante stall with all the suspension goodies and slicks. He also has all of the bolt-ons and he can manage 13.3's @ 99mph. Torque and traction are where he gets his time, cause my car flat-out destroyed his car on highway runs. Where as my car has a stock suspension and street tires, but heads/cam/bolt-ons and a dyno tune. So I had a hell of a time launching the car, but would generally make up the race after the 1/8th mile. I was usually about 4 to 5 mph faster in the 1/4 mile.

Stock LS1's hated me with a passion. Nearly sounded bone stock with a cat-back, but all of the goodies under the hood. 211/219 duration cam, with about .560"/.560" lift on 1.6 rr's. Idled perfect, ran like a scalded dog.

Then I blew it up, so now I have a LT1/4l60E going in as soon as it gets warm. Stock with headers and a cat-back. Probably around 100mph to 102mph trap speeds if I'm lucky.

I miss my TPI.
http://student.dpg.devry.edu/~d00712...s/DCP_0426.jpg

[zach123ryan]

No not owned... dont doubt my credibility you ****. cross fire and tuned port inection can look identical, cross fire was used on multiple cars not just camaro/firebird. and i have personally removed a cross fire injection system and installed a TPI injection system on a early 80's Trans Am. they both looked identical, just diffrent electrical hook ups and computer, along with about 200 diffrent computer parts.

And ya know what powered it all??

[Thirdgen89GTA]

Somebody give me my boots, the **** is deep here.

TPI cars do not make major HP. They make enough torque to move a mountain though. 320hp at the wheels out of a 305TPI car with a rebuilt bottom end and injectors is crazy. Not possible with stock heads, even stock ported heads. And very difficult with aftermarket heads like AFR's, Darts, or similar makes.

You can claim 320hp alll you want, but why don't you post your drag strip times. Because for about 320rwhp you'd need to be around the 110mph zone in a 3,500lb car.

[zach123ryan]

o my ****in god, you dont listen... It wasnt a stock bottom end.... it had a scat crank, 10-1 pistons, 2.02 heads- iron not aluminum, polished intake manifold, edelbrock TPI base and runners, lingenfelter excell throttle body, holeshot torque convertor, a delta cam ground to the same specs as the TPI one sold on summit racing, milodin oil pump, headers, bora muffler with 3.5" piping mandrel bent and no cat, 2.73 oval track gears, a built up 700R4.

The point i was trying to make is that the TPI isnt trash on them, i used the stock computer set up, but with much larger injectors and it worked awesome. and the only reason it didnt make more power was because it was a ****ty emissions generation 86 5.0 liter engine. i did however reuse those 2.02 heads on the 383 stroker i built for it, along with using a new version of that same cam shaft, i have yet to fire the 383 up though, do to the fact that i have no finished installing the electronics on it. o, and it had a much larger Walbro inline fuel pump with one of the cheap holley fuel regulators

[Thirdgen89GTA]

Originally Posted by zach123ryan

o my ****in god, you dont listen... It wasnt a stock bottom end.... it had a scat crank, 10-1 pistons, 2.02 heads- iron not aluminum, polished intake manifold, edelbrock TPI base and runners, lingenfelter excell throttle body, holeshot torque convertor, a delta cam ground to the same specs as the TPI one sold on summit racing, milodin oil pump, headers, bora muffler with 3.5" piping mandrel bent and no cat, 2.73 oval track gears, a built up 700R4.

The point i was trying to make is that the TPI isnt trash on them, i used the stock computer set up, but with much larger injectors and it worked awesome. and the only reason it didnt make more power was because it was a ****ty emissions generation 86 5.0 liter engine. i did however reuse those 2.02 heads on the 383 stroker i built for it, along with using a new version of that same cam shaft, i have yet to fire the 383 up though, do to the fact that i have no finished installing the electronics on it. o, and it had a much larger Walbro inline fuel pump with one of the cheap holley fuel regulators

What you just listed is not a 305 with injectors and a bottom end. Your bottom end strenght does not affect power in the least, it helps you make MORE power by withstanding stronger stresses.

Hell, at that point the only thing left on the engine that is original would be the block.

PS ... I had a 305 and a scat crank for it, along with delta TPI cam and rods and pistons when i bought the car, i just drove it till i blew the stock engine and then threw in the rebuild kit... then blew the new engine when i wound it out on Interstate 5 and skipped a timing tooth, but thats what i get for using a ****ty timing set when i rebuilt it, either way, its about to receive a 383 stroker that is still TPI with original injection system, larger fuel rails and larger injectors ...

so toilet bowl injection... That Lmao

The difference remains. Crossfire, TBI, and TPI are wildly different intake designs. TBI being a wet manifold, and Crossfire using a cross flow intake, while TPI pulls from a common plenum with a runner length of about 21".

[70'XBODY]

zach, you are terribly missinformed. and you also misinterpreted the Toilet bowl injection. when he was bashing that he was refering to the horrible TBI not TPI. and cross fire injection is 2 different throttle bodies on oppisite sides. i think someone just told you the wrong thing about the crossfire injection. yes early TPI setups did have what is known as BATCH fire which is when the computer fires 4 injecters on a bank at one time and then the oppisite 4 later. I couldnt think of an injection setup that looks more different than TPI than Crossfire. Oh and by the way, TPI was good for the 80s but by todays standards it just sucks when compared with LT1 or LS1 SFI. Crossfire and TBI just suck by any standards. oh another thing, it is very very very hard to fit 2.02 intake valves in a 305 because they would hit the cylider walls of the small bore and to tell you the truth, its quite pointless because the valves are shrouded so bad by the cylinder wall that no air can really flow anyways. Cmon just admit that you are stretching the truth just a little farther than you can back up... oh btw 305s suck for power and the only thing they can do is run forever bone stock.

[84bird]

good call on that one. yeah 305's suck, we both know that got 180k outta mine before i pulled it

[DuronClocker]

Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA

320rwhp from a "fully built" bottom end 305 with larger injectors? Just what was done to this wonderbeast? Had to have been damn near everything. 1986 305TPI/Auto. Made 190hp and 275lb/ft torque on average AT the crank. They had a tiny ass peanut cam with about 190/194 duration @.050" lift, and less than .400" lift on 1.5 rockers. They also had a very restrictive set of heads with small valves and 19lb/hr injectors. Larger injectors aren't gonna help an engine that already runs on the rich side. Specially one that is air flow limited.

305TPI auto cars are dogs. High 15's at best, and usually around a low 16 1/4 mile on average with a trap speed of roughly 87mph.

320rwhp even from a BUILT 305 TPI is damn near impossible without hellishly expensive parts. You'd need about 260 to 270cfm of flow from the heads, and a VERY modifed aftermarket plenum/runner/base setup. Also would need good headers, and a good exhaust.

Tuned port injection does not flow enough at the upper end to make those numbers on a 305 without a power adder. Even most expensive 350TPI buildups don't yield 320rwhp. My own 350 TPI with highly ported heads, a carefully selected cam from Lingenfelters book and every power trick in the book put down just 300rwhp with about 3 hours on the dyno for tuning. I had over 400lb/ft at the wheels, but your 305 just isn't gonna produce those numbers without dumping the TPI and going with a tunnel ram.

N/A TPI cars were not HP monsters. They were TORQUE monsters and most made their power well below 5,000rpm.

Eh, I had expected close to 320rwhp out of my 305 with a stock bottom end. Had a decent sized cam (210*/220*), ported LT1 aluminum heads (flowed 221/185), LT1 intake, headers, cat-back. Ended up blowing the 305 up because I didn't rebuild the bottom end (stock bottom end apparently doesn't like 6300RPMs).

I'd also like to say that my 305/auto car bone stock except for a cat-back ran 15.5@88mph with a 2.25 60'. That'd be low 15s at around 90mph or so with a decent (2.0) 60' time. With 1.6 rockers, SLP 1 3/4" shorty headers, and 3.23 gears, I ran a 14.7@93mph, again with a 2.2 60'. So that'd be mid 14s at 95ish or so. With a 60shot that same night, I ran a 14.5@97 with a 2.44 60'. With a decent 60', that had potential to be a high 13s car at 100mph....that's with a stock un-ported TPI induction and stock untouched heads, stock cam. Gears, full exhaust, 1.6 rockers, and a 60shot. With the LT1 heads, intake, and the CompCam installed, the car was a beast on the top end. It just didn't have any power down low. A 3000RPM stall would have helped the motor tremendously. Never got a time in that motor as I blew it up second time down the track over-revving it. First time down the track was half-throttle most of the way to get a feel for the track and make sure the car felt okay. Oh, and I'm more than willing to admit that I couldn't drive that car for **** with those 60' times..

My own 350 TPI with highly ported heads, a carefully selected cam from Lingenfelters book and every power trick in the book put down just 300rwhp with about 3 hours on the dyno for tuning. I had over 400lb/ft at the wheels, but your 305 just isn't gonna produce those numbers without dumping the TPI and going with a tunnel ram.

N/A TPI cars were not HP monsters. They were TORQUE monsters and most made their power well below 5,000rpm.

A bowl job with no flow numbers does not constitute heads as being highly ported heads, and Lingenfelter only makes like two TPI cams (the 211 and the 219). Not to mention the fact that that car never made it to the dyno and was never measured anywhere to put down 300rwhp and 400rwtq. Also, a 305 TPI with a decent cam and full exhaust should easily spin to 5500RPMs. My 305TPI spun to 5500RPMs easily (and still had decent power) once I installed the 1 3/4" headers. The stock 305 manifolds SUCK. That was even with the stock cam and springs. At 5500-5600, I experienced valve float.

[DuronClocker]

Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA

If anyone doubts what I have to say, go look at www.thirdgen.org and see what most of the TPI cars are doing there.

I personally know someone with a factory freak car. Runs 14.4's all day long at 97mph with 80% humidity and 117* temp track side on a 2.4s 60'.
1992 TransAm GTA low mileage. 350TPI/Auto. Made 225hp and 315lb/ft torque on the dyno.

Also know someone with a fully built transmission on a 2,600 9.5" vigilante stall with all the suspension goodies and slicks. He also has all of the bolt-ons and he can manage 13.3's @ 99mph. Torque and traction are where he gets his time, cause my car flat-out destroyed his car on highway runs. Where as my car has a stock suspension and street tires, but heads/cam/bolt-ons and a dyno tune. So I had a hell of a time launching the car, but would generally make up the race after the 1/8th mile. I was usually about 4 to 5 mph faster in the 1/4 mile.

While I do agree Jeremy's car ('91 GTA) and Brandon's car ('89 Formy with the trans) ran as you said, I don't agree with the statement about your car. Yes, Brandon's times were all in the launch, but his car was no slouch up top either. Not only do I not remember any highway runs with you two, but I remember you running a best of 14.6@91 or 93mph. This can be verified by going on the NW Indiana and South Chicago board on thirdgen.org and searching for his posted track times.

Stock LS1's hated me with a passion. Nearly sounded bone stock with a cat-back, but all of the goodies under the hood. 211/219 duration cam, with about .560"/.560" lift on 1.6 rr's. Idled perfect, ran like a scalded dog.

I also don't remember hearing any stories of you racing (let alone beating) an LS1 car. Bone stock, they all run a full second quicker and 10mph faster than your car did.

Then I blew it up, so now I have a LT1/4l60E going in as soon as it gets warm. Stock with headers and a cat-back. Probably around 100mph to 102mph trap speeds if I'm lucky.

Last I heard, that LT1/4L60E isn't technically yours yet. Hopefully it gets all worked out though because I'd love to help drop that thing in there.

EDIT: Sorry, was corrected that Jeremy's car is a '91. Either way, same car 91-92.

[DuronClocker]

Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA

TPI cars do not make major HP. They make enough torque to move a mountain though. 320hp at the wheels out of a 305TPI car with a rebuilt bottom end and injectors is crazy. Not possible with stock heads, even stock ported heads. And very difficult with aftermarket heads like AFR's, Darts, or similar makes.

You can claim 320hp alll you want, but why don't you post your drag strip times. Because for about 320rwhp you'd need to be around the 110mph zone in a 3,500lb car.

320rwhp is more than possible with a 305 and ported or aftermarket heads. Like I said, I was aiming for somewhere around there and low 13s in my setup. My heads/intake/cam combo cost me less than a grand.

320rwhp in a 3500lb car should net him somewhere around 104-106mph. He shouldn't be trapping anywhere near 110MPH with 320rwhp with a 3500lb raceweight.

[DuronClocker]

Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA

Your bottom end strenght does not affect power in the least, it helps you make MORE power by withstanding stronger stresses.

A rebuilt bottom end can improve performance, especially if compression is raised and lighter rotating components are used. Not to mention, rings with less friction and better sealing can improve performance by reducing drag and reducing leakdown. Not to mention the crank can be knife-edged for less drag as it spins through the oil in the pan. Windage trays can also help with this. There's probably a good 20-30hp gain just by doing this stuff.

Hell, at that point the only thing left on the engine that is original would be the block.

True, but he didn't say it wasn't a 305.

Sorry Bill, I just wanted to keep people from being misinformed.

[85MCSuperSport]

Originally Posted by shaggy

decent mullet mobile

Though this thread has taken a twist, I would like to bring it back to an earlier statement. His car is a decent Mullet Mobile, but mine deserves the ultimate mullet trophy. :thumb: