Tribute to my IROC

[Gtx28]

smaller caps dont equal higher revs where did you get that from?
Everything on the engine must be properly organized for that. The block must be properly over or undersquare to meet your goals. I can site two examples where larger bearing surface enabled an engine to increase rpm significantly.

The big surprize for me was how small the main studs were. As for the block splitting no i have not personally seen that happen. Every fox body owner ive spoken to who has broken into the tens has said that the block will crack between 450-600 hp on the motor. Unless i switch to a mexican block that is supposed to have more nickel content??? or get a sportsmans block(which seems like a waste of time) Or something stronger from an engine block manufacturer like world. The whole point of my building the fox body was to learn about fords make it a growing experience, and prove several people wrong. And so far it has been.

[turboitall]

Originally Posted by Gtx28

smaller caps dont equal higher revs where did you get that from?
Everything on the engine must be properly organized for that. The block must be properly over or undersquare to meet your goals. I can site two examples where larger bearing surface enabled an engine to increase rpm significantly.

The big surprize for me was how small the main studs were. As for the block splitting no i have not personally seen that happen. Every fox body owner ive spoken to who has broken into the tens has said that the block will crack between 450-600 hp on the motor. Unless i switch to a mexican block that is supposed to have more nickel content??? or get a sportsmans block(which seems like a waste of time) Or something stronger from an engine block manufacturer like world. The whole point of my building the fox body was to learn about fords make it a growing experience, and prove several people wrong. And so far it has been.

i said nothing about end caps, i said smaller journals, that is a smaller bearing surface. a smaller bearing surface = less friction, less friction + light/strong rotating assembly = higher rpm capabilities. i have seen ALOT of people with 600 horsepower 302's who have not cracked the block. my girlfriends mustang has around 500 and there are no problems at all. we built her motor to rev to 8,000 rpm and it does it perfectly. just because you built a fox body doesnt mean you are the ford god and neither am i. i just know that all the limitations everyone talks about are exagerated to be 100% safe. if someone says your crank wont handle 500 horsepower i guarantee it will handle well over 600 until it actually breaks. but then again i dont build my daily drivers to be race cars either.

[Gtx28]

im not a ford person like i said this is a learning experience for me. as i also mentioned i had not seen the block that split. That i had gathered information from people who had done this same project before me. My understanding of the iron ford 302 in the foxbody mustangs is that a common way to make more lower end strength is to tap the block for chevy main studs? Have you heard anything about this ive been tolling the mustang forums but still no go. Wont have more money for the car till the first of the year holidays and all.

[American Psycho]

2 bolt mains are still common in 500hp 302's

[turboitall]

Originally Posted by Gtx28

im not a ford person like i said this is a learning experience for me. as i also mentioned i had not seen the block that split. That i had gathered information from people who had done this same project before me. My understanding of the iron ford 302 in the foxbody mustangs is that a common way to make more lower end strength is to tap the block for chevy main studs? Have you heard anything about this ive been tolling the mustang forums but still no go. Wont have more money for the car till the first of the year holidays and all.

ive never heard of anyone with 600 or less horsepower having a problem with the two bolt mains. ford does make a saimese bore wet sump 302 block with 4 bolt mains. most ford guys that are pushing over 600 horsepower get into a 4 bolt main 351 cleveland. i posted a video of a twin turbo foxbody that runs low 10's on a completly stock short block 302, he has had no problem with the motor so far and he definalty has over 600 horsepower.

[nx468]

You guys are talking 2 different worlds on the effects of the motor...Forced Induction vs Nitrous. A 302 Ford block will not split from just shear horsepower. Something has to give during the compression stroke and the pressure not exiting the block for it to split (ex:stuck exhaust valve) something has to stop the engine from cycling without releasing the combustion. Ive seen a block split first hand from a head bolt actually ripped out of the seat in the head on the exhaust side and the combustion was not release on the compression stroke. Did an extreme amount of damage to say the least. But the block was not the cause of the damage it was the head bolt seat and the bolt.

Originally Posted by Gtx28

im not a ford person like i said this is a learning experience for me. as i also mentioned i had not seen the block that split. That i had gathered information from people who had done this same project before me. My understanding of the iron ford 302 in the foxbody mustangs is that a common way to make more lower end strength is to tap the block for chevy main studs? Have you heard anything about this ive been tolling the mustang forums but still no go. Wont have more money for the car till the first of the year holidays and all.

Actually to make a 2 bolt main 302 stronger, you have a few options. #1 replace the main cap bolts with actual studs(arp). #2 Drill and tap the block for 4 bolt main caps from Ford or aftermarket like Splayed Caps(best choice). Have the local machine shop hard block half of the block for better overall hold for the studs and caps(do not use main bolts). #3. Purchase a Ford Motorsports 4 bolt main block and use main studs instead of bolts.

Best choice would be #2.
Cheapest #1

Mix #2 and #3 and you have a nice block for sure.

[turboitall]

actually, i was talking about naturally asperated motors, no nitrous and no forced induction. anyone with half a brain would use main studs, that is a default.

[nx468]

Sorry misinterupted the differences from the posts. I was seeing it as the posts as comparing a 600hp stock short block 302 Forced Ind. vs a 600 hp 302 stock short block with Nitrous. Not saying the motor couldnt handle the nitrous, just that the blown car will have a better chance of reliablity then the nitrous car hands down. Either way a safe bet on a stock 302 is not a high rpm killer for sure. Its just not built for it, unless reinforced. :thumb:

Anywho I give it to the Mustang for the weight, looks, and rear suspension. I give the 3rd Gen Fbodies the handling and overall foundation. I agree everything else would be driver preference. :thumb:

[Thirdgen89GTA]

The chevy small block is touted as being the most successful engine platform every built. Do not confuse successful with "best performing" though. There are better designs out there, but the SBC has been in production for a long time. Heck, they still produce these engines till this day with minor changes. The LSx series engines are simply the latest evolution of the chevy small block. Lighter, stronger, more efficient. This motor was built as a performer right out of the box. Its everything the small block should have been. 15* heads, (later 12* heads on LS7), perfect valvetrain geometry out of the box. Everything is better, not a single part of is really a SBC, cause nothing from an LSx is compatible with a SBC.

Fords engine management responds way better to mods than GM's MAF system for thirdgen's. The 165ECM was better than the 85 TPI's, but still falls behind behind the Ford setups adaptability. However, the tunability of the 7730ECM found in later Speed Density (90-92) cars is unmatched, even better than most aftermarket management setups.

The thirdgen chassis has the better suspension design of the two as far as solid axels go. Its more planted in cornering and far less sensitive to imperfections in the pavement during high load cornering. As far as straight line traction goes they put it down the same way, which is way better than any independant setup could ever hope to be. Corners flat and hard and very stable

I like foxbodies, I really do. However, I prefer the looks of my GTA over that of a Fox body or Camaro. Though the Camaro and TransAm are essentially the same car a poncho is actually about 50 to 70lbs heavier than its camaro equivelent. The induction setup on Camaro's also yields about 10hp more than the bird's bottom breathing. Though once you put a true cold air system on either car that 10hp advantage is negated.

Also, you'll never see a GTA race because Pontiact had other models to fill that need. The formula's and base TA's were far better suited to race because they had less ammenities. My GTA had power eveything standard, steering wheel radio controls, and about 10 other doodads that just made it weigh more. Still, I love my GTA and I drive it every chance I get.

But right now its getting a total rebuild from the ground up. LT1/4l60e, ZR1 rims from a vette, and lots others.

[zach123ryan]

Toilet Bowl Injection or Auto TPI/305's

Wrong. my TPI 305 in my 1986 trans am was all stock except larger injectors, and it was on a fully built 305 and handled it fine... put down over 320 Hp and 400 Ft/lb torq. GM had 3 types of injection Crossfire, which fired 4 injectors at a time, TBI which ... well is throttle body injection, and last but not least, TPI tuned port injection which delivered fuel to each cylinder when it is in the compression stroke, Crossfire and TPI look the same from the outside.

[nx468]

Sorry but a stock 305 with larger injectors isnt going to put out 320 hp maybe 320 pieces of shrapnel but not 320 hp.

http://www.ronsfuel.com/flying_toilet.cfm <- How is that for Toilet Bowl Injection ? :thumpup:

[American Psycho]

Originally Posted by nx468

Sorry but a stock 305 with larger injectors isnt going to put out 320 hp maybe 320 pieces of shrapnel but not 320 hp.

http://www.ronsfuel.com/flying_toilet.cfm <- How is that for Toilet Bowl Injection ? :thumpup:

he said fully built.

[nx468]

Originally Posted by shaggy

he said fully built.

It was misleading, I mean come on its a 305 !

[American Psycho]

Originally Posted by nx468

It was misleading, I mean come on its a 305 !

Im just reading, i dont want involved






























Ps built 302 > 305

[zach123ryan]

PS ... I had a 305 and a scat crank for it, along with delta TPI cam and rods and pistons when i bought the car, i just drove it till i blew the stock engine and then threw in the rebuild kit... then blew the new engine when i wound it out on Interstate 5 and skipped a timing tooth, but thats what i get for using a ****ty timing set when i rebuilt it, either way, its about to receive a 383 stroker that is still TPI with original injection system, larger fuel rails and larger injectors ...

so toilet bowl injection... That Lmao