The new 270mph super car

[UKunt]

its a road car what has it all.power,handling ,luxury and looks (in some peoples opinion

[BOTLFEDLT1]

I dunno.. I think if a poll were taken, Mclaren F1 > any bmw ever made as ultimate road car.

[Nortad]

I should have read this thread before, this is a great discussion, instead of being hijacked into another joke thread

The maclaren was developed in the 1991 with the existing tecnology at the time, so seeing it has a pure road car now seems hard cuz its not has luxurious or well equiped has modern supercars.

The McLaren became the fastest road car by accident, it was never intended has a record breaker. Murray asked BMW for an engine with 550hp and a pre determined weight. BMW failed to achieve that weight mark by 16kg so to make up for it they aded more power ( wow, what a nice way to make up for mistakes ) Originaly the engine suplier would be Honda (thank god it wasnt, imagine how more anoying ricers would be...) who were mclarens engine supplier in F1 but they didnt feel up to the task. The key for gordon murray on this car was weight saving and weight management to improve the dynamics to the best. Aerodinamics also play a very important part has they incorporate 1980´s F1 tecnics like "wing car" concepts and fan assisted downforce, were air is sucked from under the car thru channels or thru electric fans exiting on the top as well has ground effects, wich means the faster it goes the more stable it is, wich isnt the case in most supercars when they go so fast. McLaren enginners claim that the BMW V12 has been tested to over 1000hp (n/a, not forced induction) with a 10.500rpm redline. But for road legal purposes the further it goes is 680hp on the less aerodinamic and winged, race homologated (that means it looses the advenced downforce tecniques) F1 GTR.

Andy Wallace after having set the 386kph/241mph (or 391 has one video has showed) record stated that the gearbox could have a diferent gearing or pull another gear and achieve a higher topspeed cuz max speed was reached at 6800rpm, when max power is at 6400rpm.

Now the 1994 Dauer 962LM is a diferent case altogether. Although I consider it a road car (wich you can still buy today) cuz for me a prodution car is something you can walk in the dealership and buy it and drive it on the road legaly, independently of price or prodution numbers, cuz a cars sucess doens determine what it is.

But the Dauer is literally a race car turned road car although completely reworked and it is one of the most unpractical cars I ever seen. Still it did 2.6secs from 0-100kph and 403kph topspeed. But since the engine is early 1980s tecnology with turbo lag enough to take a nap and wake up before anything happens it is very inneficient. Although it has sat nav, tv, full leather interior, but barely is a two seater. In essence, the sacreficies are too big and the performance is too high for the road, although in a track it would be by far the most efficient.

Now the Bugatti is something else. Its main purpose is has a marketing tool for VW groups new brand Bugatti has for VW themselves. I bet ya that in a couple of years we will see a more acessible model, cheaper and slower being sold. Why? so people at parties can say "ohhh!.. I own a Buggati!..." Its all about status.

Like it was said before the Veyron was developed has a concept car based purely on style. Ferdinand Piech, president of VW at the time and nephew of Ferdinand Porsche stated to the press that they will make it and that it will have 1000hp and 400kph without talking to their enginners first. While the McLaren F1 took a little over a year to be designed and built, the Veyron took 5, with many crashes in the process due to aerodinamic instability (the mclaren did have one in the desert when it accidently hit a conceled rock in the sand and flipped many times) engine fires etc. Aerodinamic F1 enginners didnt know how to make anything of it and the original concept had to be modified, but only slightly cuz management didnt want any changes to the desing, so the car is the same but wider and longer 4cm.

The engine is another excuse for marketing: its a W16. But why? Because VW invented that engine type so it is right and proper that the Veyron has it, instead of a lighter, simpler V12 or V16. It is to big, to complex (just imagine the camshaft sistem on an engine like that) and to big for a power output a smaller engine could also achieve.

It is too heavy do to all enginnering needed to make such a car go fast. In fact a better aerodinamics would improve weight cuz alot of the weight comes from sistems to keep it stable and the bulking up that parts need to have due to the aerodynamic streeses it suffers.

You can tell how bad those aerodynamis are for the huge wing it has. In fact it is known that the Veyrons drag values are the worst possible for a mid engined car!!! If that doesnt say it all, I dont know what does...

And ricerboys are stil yaping about Supras and Skylines? Why dont you state the same about S38 and M30 bmw engines? or big V8s? or Porsches? Ohhh yeah! Right, cuz they arent japanese, so they dont fit in your car culture. But there is a problem with those compared to a supercar: they are aerodynamic bricks and the engines that make that power only last something like 10minutes in full boost and then they become "transformers" transforming from an engine into a granade, while a single engine makes so much polution it kills dozens of seals in the Bearing straight everytime you turn the ignition.

Other cars like the Koenigsegg have all but the right gearing a maybe (maybe, dont know really) power. It does have a better aerodynamic than the McLaren (wich is the key for the speed game)

But there is a tuned car that does achieve the 400kph mark: the 9FF V400 based on the 996/997 porsche carrera narrow body but with GT2 mechanics. It has 850hp it complies with exhaust emissions and it achieved 388kph on Nardo, wich if you take out tyre scrub a banked circuit produces, plus the unique aerodynamic conditions, makes it feasible to achive 400 on the Ehra-Lessien straight for example. It is enginnered to last and it is said to be utterly drivable, just fealing like a very very powerful GT3RS.

There are many more cars that are road legal and have reached the same performance (the lingenfelter sleadgehammer vette is one) but those performances are most of the time statements with no officiall testing to prove it.

I just coughed up everything I know. If what I just wrote helps to reach a consensus then great, if not, ignore it and scroll down.

Anyway, that bristol looks atleast original, might look better in the flesh, but historically Bristol were never handsome cars. I classic car dealership used have a 411 nearby and it was so ugly it scared children away. Hope it goes better than it looks, but I doubt seriously 270mph.

[BOTLFEDLT1]

Excellent post. You obviously have read up on the history and development of the F1, instead of making off the hip remarks that have no backing.

[97talon]

Good post. One of the first long ones I took the time to read.

[raif_nijem]

damm that was a good post
it was like super cars from the past to the future

[Nortad]

Hey, thanks, I think nobody would bother to read such long text

I made this list for another forum, Im not sure it is very acurate, but I think it gives an idea of wich cars do what speeds.

McLaren F1

Nárdo - 386kph
Ehra-Lessien - 391kph (Or any other straight long enough)

Speeds reached with a polished undertray and no rev. Its also said that a higher gearing or a 7th gear would alow a higher top speed.
limiter

CCR

Nárdo - 388kph
Factory claim - 395kph (If you could find the straight)

CCX

Nárdo - 392kph
Factory claim - 412kph

Optional rear wing reduces top speed, but the CCX is known for its very low darg and downforce so its possible to reach the claimed speeds

Dauer 962 LM

Nárdo - ?
Ehra-Lessien - 404kph

Bugatti

Nárdo - ? (I know it was tested there but I dont know how much they got...)

Ehra-Lessien - 407kph (unofficialy) 405kph in the journalists tests, indicated on speedo.
Factory claims unlimited test mules reached 412kph

Bugatti may use unlimited version to break record, has McLaren did.

Then you got more competition...

Salleen S7 TT

Nárdo - ?
Ehra-Lessien- ?
Factory claims 410kph

SSC Aero

Nárdo - ?
Ehra-Lessien - ?

Factory claims it is aerodinamic capable of 437, but sandart Aero will only do ~390kph.

Aero Ultimate

Nárdo - ?
Ehra-Lessien - ?

Less weight and 1046hp makes the factory claim a top speed over 400kph

Lotec Sirius

Nárdo - ?
Ehra-Lessien - ?

More of a one off than anything serious, but its boost a claimed 1334hp from a Mercedes unit and top speed of over 400kph.

Corvette Sledgehammer

Nárdo - ?
Ehra-Lessien - ?

Again a one off, but has been clocked at 410kph

Viper TT Hennessey

Nárdo - ?
Ehra-Lessien - ?

Claimed top speed of 410kph
9FF V400

Nárdo - 388kph
Ehra Lessien - ?

[BOTLFEDLT1]

As another data point, an F1 car goes 400 kph at bonneville salt flats

Witchdoctor Motorsports

[Nortad]

Its not a champ car, its a F1, its the BAR Honda car.

[BOTLFEDLT1]

oops! i need to get my eyes (and head) checked for missing that.

Originally Posted by Nortad

Its not a champ car, its a F1, its the BAR Honda car.

[Nortad]

Originally Posted by BOTLFEDLT1

oops! i need to get my eyes (and head) checked for missing that.

you need to cut on the beer man, its killing to many braincells